Discussing Obama, Limbaugh suggests Dems, media believe "you can't criticize the little black man-child"

Most colleges are white. You don't have to call it white, you can just set the cost of admission so high only the elite can afford it.

Thats fine...We'll agree to disagree.

Actually, whites can go to black colleges (and do).

The point is that we don't call a college The National white college, and we don't have an organization called the National association for the advancement of white people.

If we did, that would be all too quickly labeled racist. I don't see the need for such labeling, anymore, and the door swings both ways.

Rev wright and Limbaugh both have freedom of expression in the US. It's just a fact of US life.

Whether one believes either is racist or not.... If Wright gets a pass, so should Limbaugh.

There's your problem Shuan when you refer to we, you should mean Americans not White Americans. Maybe if you opened your eyes and read what PH said you'd realize your mind set is Anti-Unified America. If we went blow for blow on racial inequality do you seriously think whites have the lower hand. I will be the first to say the most damaged race in the US are Native Americans. And we do little for them, but this constant comparing of racial plight comes off, as well, childish. Black guy has a problem instead of listening there are those who simply brush it off and make comments similar to your own. That makes you and others like you part of the problem. I wont call it racist but more reaction based on emotions that cloud your ability to see these things objectively or from another point of view. If you really are concerned for America and Americans as a whole you'd best open your eyes and mind to the fact that no form of racism is acceptable to anyone whether they be white black "Poke-dotted" and stop answering for racist actions with lousy excuses.

we don't have an organization called the National association for the advancement of white people.

Nor would there be any need for one, because whites still dominate American culture.

If Wright gets a pass, so should Limbaugh.

But Wright didn't get a pass, he was demonized in the press. Obama was hounded for associating with him until he finally denounced Wright.

The reality is that many whites want to believe that racism simply ceased to exist around 1975, and that since then anyone who mentions continuing racist frames in our culture is rudely re-hashing old issues. The response to Wright was basically: "OK, you're free now. Shut up already."

If Wright gets a pass, so should Limbaugh.

Shaun--have you spent much time actually watching full sermons of Wright's online? I'm not saying you have not--I'm just asking.

I've personally spent several hours listening to him, I really don't find what he says out of line. If FOX had not clipped 3 seconds of a soundbite from a couple sermons, this would be a non-issue. I've watched the entire clip from the 9-11 sermon more than once and recommend doing like wise.

That being said--I was not impressed with his performance at the press club. However, technically, from a faith perspective, he is correct, if God has it in his plans for Obama to be elected, he is not powerful enough to deter that.

I just wish people would stop comparing church to Rush--

I think this 'why are there still black colleges' line is BS. You know actually why they are called historically black colleges, because back in the day, blacks were not admitted to some colleges. So blacks and some whites created colleges that blacks could go to. Whites can go and do go to these colleges. They just call them historically black.

There is a black caucus in Congress. So what? I'm black and I don't really see the point for having a Black caucus or a Latino caucus either. I'm not thinking about it in racial terms, I just don't think that these caucuses are necessary.

When hear or read people talking there black college, black entertainment channel, black caucus, it's obsessed with race and they are trying to find ways to make blacks racist. I'm sure there are black who hate whites, I've never met them, but these just really aren't good examples of saying 'blacks are racist, too'.

Also, how the hell did Rev. Wright get a pass? Are you kidding me? They were talking about him for weeks. People keep saying that and I'm wondering what else needs to happen? Seriously. Get over it. Rush definitely gets a pass because he just signed a new contract for millions of dollars.

You do realize that there aren't any more so-called Black colleges, don't you? All of the "Black" colleges that you may have in mind, accept non-black folks...maybe the percentage are small. But, I bet if you looked at the amount of blacks in a school like Yale and Harvard, Brown, etc that percentage would be low as well.
The problem is that no one refers to these schools as being all white, yet they are quick to label a school as being "Black" in order to claim reverse discrimination.

If Wright gets a pass, so should Limbaugh.
Shaun--have you spent much time actually watching full sermons of Wright's online? I'm not saying you have not--I'm just asking.

I've personally spent several hours listening to him, I really don't find what he says out of line. If FOX had not clipped 3 seconds of a soundbite from a couple sermons, this would be a non-issue. I've watched the entire clip from the 9-11 sermon more than once and recommend doing like wise.

That being said--I was not impressed with his performance at the press club. However, technically, from a faith perspective, he is correct, if God has it in his plans for Obama to be elected, he is not powerful enough to deter that.

I just wish people would stop comparing church to Rush--

If Wright gets a pass, so should Limbaugh.
Shaun--have you spent much time actually watching full sermons of Wright's online? I'm not saying you have not--I'm just asking.
I've personally spent several hours listening to him, I really don't find what he says out of line. If FOX had not clipped 3 seconds of a soundbite from a couple sermons, this would be a non-issue. I've watched the entire clip from the 9-11 sermon more than once and recommend doing like wise.
That being said--I was not impressed with his performance at the press club. However, technically, from a faith perspective, he is correct, if God has it in his plans for Obama to be elected, he is not powerful enough to deter that.

Such comments are misinformed. The issue as relates to TUCC and Rev Wright goes FAR beyond soundbites. Rev Wright's entire ministry is founded on the principle of the psychological separation of whites from blacks. If you had any perceptive knowledge of Wright and Black Liberation Theology you would see that. Wright uses the words 'white supremacy', constantly. He has indoctrinated his congreagation, which consists entirely of Americans, with the idea that they are perpetual foreigners and outcasts in their own country. He engages repeatedly in conspiracy theories. He promotes antagonistic attitudes between the races. He lies for effect.

There is very, very little upside to Rev Wright.

Macks: post 2.5

There's your problem Shuan when you refer to we, you should mean Americans not White Americans

That's quite the assumption on your part, Mack.

When I used the collective "WE" I was referring to the the collective population as in we the people of the United States.

That is what "we" typically means when referring to societal issues in common conversation. Usually people don't need to be spoon fed that distinction, either.

For you to assume otherwise says quite a lot about you. Were you projecting perhaps, or just too sensitive?

Now recite this with me, Mack:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, ..."

Do you know what document the above quote is excerpted from? Hint: It's the one that guarantees free speech.

Asking for for clarification before one speaks is helpful, if one is in doubt.

I don't think a human mouth is big enough to continually insert a human foot without it eventually causing quite a problem. ;-)

The point is that we don't call a college The National white college, and we don't have an organization called the National association for the advancement of white people.

I fail to see your point. We the American people don't call a college The National white college I could see your point but

The point is that we don't call a college The National white college, and we don't have an organization called the National association for the advancement of white people.

your point seems pretty weak with that.

And if you believe Wright was given a Pass I would say you are sensitive but that would be an understatement.

"All of the "Black" colleges that you may have in mind, accept non-black folks...maybe the percentage are small."

And why are the percentages small? Because there are far too many white people would rather not go to college than go to a school that is associated with blacks.

By the way...I am a white man, married to a white woman and we adopted our amazing son, who happens to be black, 11 years ago. FWIW

You are a good person, BSJ to adopt a child.

I agree that being too sensitive about the mention of color and constantly calling attention to it, creates a division.

OK...so it's NOT racism...huh?
So, if (or when) someone refers to your son's skin color in a derogatory fashion, and he brazenly stands up for himself...you'll be cool if I taunt him for being a "girl" and playing "the victim"...and then self-righteously refer to him as a "little black man-child"??

Maybe I'm wrong...but in that instance, I think you might be offended and see the comments as racially motivated and bigoted.

Excellent point, widewillie. I wonder how he will feel if his kid goes to college and then gets a job, and people sneeringly say his education and job were GIVEN to him via affirmative action?

Are there animals in Jamaica Queens?

uhh.. what?

uhh..what? (with a sign around his neck of what he said. Then we can all place bets on how long he lasts. My money is on 7 seconds. )

What's gonna get him??

Ok...Over the past weeks Rush has been making comments about Obama being a child. I know this because I watch everyone of his shows on my Rush 24/7. Now yesterday, his comment regarding Obama as a "little black-man child". I don't understand how that is racist. Know a white person can't call a black person black. I called some of my "black" friends a little while ago and asked them to listen to what Rush said. They too, agree with me. Not racist. They are liberal-moderate folks and find this "hullabaloo" to be stupid.

"little black-man child"not racist?

NOPE. Whats wrong with calling someone black....who IS Black!!!

You know I see a lot of

As soon as you say ANYTHING about Obama..."your a racist"

Statements but not seeing the actual "Your a racist" coming out. If anyone is crying its those who spew this same garbage over and over. In this segment none of the posters are called racists maybe they are a little delusional when it comes to race but not racist at least that I can tell. Its so infantile to react with statements like these unless someone comes out and calls you a racists stop crying foul. If you feel guilty blame your self or leave it alone. Repeating the everyone that attacks Obama is racist talking point over and over again doesn't make it true it only proves you are uneasy with the issue of race. Your just running from the issue and hiding behind this now classic phrase instead of trying to figure out why people are concerned.

7.6

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't think Rush was actually calling Obama a "little black man-child". He was saying the media and the liberals were thinking/saying this, not he himself. I am not a regular Rush listener but I believe I have heard him talk on more than one occasion about how, in reality, the liberals treat blacks more like children/victims who need to be led, protected and given preference due to the color of their skin as though they can't think for themselves. These are my words, not his, but I think this is really the gist of what he is saying.

I know what he said was inflammatory but not racist. That's what he does, he creates a dialogue, he echoes allot of what many people are feeling and ruffles the feathers of those that totally disagree with him. I don't like everything he says but I defend his right to say it.

BSJ, how many democratic black friends does Rush have? How many black friends does he have that aren't rich, republicans?

7.9
Oh come on!! Now you are either just being silly or you're trying to bait me.

Yes he does have an audience, 20 million a week to be exact and I am proudly one of them. Go ahead, listen to his show. Rush has many Liberal listeners and if you call in and mention your a Dem. or Liberal, you will be put 1st in- line.

Why would you want to call in if you were a liberal? He wouldn't listen, wouldn't let you talk, and then make fun of you when hung up or he hung up on you. Its pointless to talk to him or his millions of neocons. (I say millions, but by 20 million you mean about 4 million 5 days a week to be clear- I'm sure he spins it some other way, but that's how ratings are done.) They have taken parts of Rush's overblown ego, made it their own and refuse to believe that they are wrong on so many levels that it is beyond comprehension. In fact, I believe that they get off on people like me who "just don't get it" and "drink the koolaid" or how ever they rationalize and blow me off as some uninformed socialist. All in an effort to make themselves feel important and better than everyone else. I feel sorry for people like that and wish that the United States governemnt would pay for a program to help them feel better about being humanbeings.

MrBlonde..Just listen to Rush.. He is accepting to different points of view. His call screeners are told to put a lib/dem at the head of the list. He is NOT nasty or mean to them unless they start name calling. . You have NO right to say that about him..Rush calls it strait. I, personally do not like sugar coating the truth. Unfortunately..Libs GAG FOR IT!!! I know many liberals who listen and may not agree with him but they fell that he gave them a shot to speak their mind.

8.2 Your last sentence really sums you up but I'm not going to go there.

Rush takes alot of calls from liberals actually and he does listen, surprisingly. The first few times i heard his show I was actuallly very surprised at how respectful genuine he was with them. Now that is not to say that there arent calls by people who just piss him off and he acts accordingly because that happens too but when a liberal calls in to honestly express a view and have some meaningful dialogue they are treated the respect due them.

My last sentence was a joke. Sorry you didn't get it. :) Should I explain how it is ironic or... nevermind. Obama is a muslim... blah blah blah who cares... Ad Hominem- morons.

#9

I'm sooo right there with you dandemacy.

BSJ you are right. I think it's the parents fault not teaching their kids the right from wrong. kids don't see the difference that adults see.

You are right, BSJ, the "n" word is horrible. Those kids should have been taught to call your son a little black man child/victim. Rush is helping people learn the proper terminology.

biggerthebetter, Rush said "little black man-child". No victim in their! What Rush was referring to was obamas incredible LACK of experience. He has as much experience as a child.
Just becasue I opened up about my son, It would have been nice to leave him out of it like the other posters.

What Rush was doing was calling him "boy." Referring to an adult as a child, whether you're calling a middle aged woman a girl or a grown black man a "boy" is demeaning and offensive.

You can say it till your blue in the face...Rush DID NOT in any way mean man-child as BOY. Just today around 2:45 Rush called Obama a man-child. You Rush haters need to give it a break.

Exactly how does "man child" mean ANYTHING OTHER THAN "boy?" Especially when preceded by the sneering, dismissive "little?" Obama is taller than Limbaugh, by the way, and a lot taller than McCain.

Rush likes to equivocate about his usage of words, it gives him plausible (in his mind) deniability such that he can say: "Ohhhhh, I NEVER said THAT!" when it's clear to anyone with a vocabulary above the Third Grade level what the meaning behind his words are. His statements are baldly racist in this instance.

Racism: Hatred toward another race and believe that you are better than that said person/race.

Racist Act: Calling a black person a n***er to burning down a known black persons church or any number or horrific acts that have happened. (don't forget segregation!)

Racist Comment: Get out of my face you porch monkey. (actually heard that one in Philly. Horrible!)

Racism in the US: Yes. I believe things are getting better but certain parts of this country, you need to be careful. We used to live in MD and a bout a hour away we were told (my son being black) not to go through this town unless he had a gun. We have since moved.

Limbaughs statement: Not racist to me. You have to understand the context.

Thanks Jimster

Jimster, Since I was the only Conservative to answer your questions, can you answer them too? Curious. Have a good day.

I know I wasnt asked but I decided to answer anyway.

Racism: Feeling of racial supeority or distain for another race

Racist Act: Anything done out of anger, hatred, mistrust of a particular race to hurt in some way that individual.

Racist Comment: Anything that is racially charged and hurtful.

Racism in the US: Is getting better depending where you are its on both sides of the spectrum. But I feel there is a new problem. Non-racists who are scared, uncomfartable or bothered by the Issue itself. Then we have the oversensitive who make the ones I just mentioned become more uncomfartable and less understanding. Quite the cycle actually.

Limbaughs Statement: Was sharp and uneccessary. Though not the most racist thing he has eluded to or the worst I've heard. The problem is he said it with no consideration of what he was saying.

Jimster, Since I was the only Conservative to answer your questions, can you answer them too? Curious. Have a good day.

I agree with all that you and Macks have written. I would add that using a person's race, ethnicity, etc. where it isn't germane to the subject being discussed, e.g.

--you can't criticize the little black man-child.

Now Limbaugh could have just said that Obama can't take critisim, or that he's a wuss or even that he's a man-child. But there is nothing added to Limbaugh's statement by adding that he's a black man-child, other than to pluck on the strings of his racist listeners. It's all "inside". So clever. So nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
Add to that the racially loaded phrase; little, black and man-child . Just a few meanings gleened historically:

• Little Black Sambo
• child=Boy. Come ear Boy
• Little. What's little about Obama? This is used as a derrogitory device to demean and belittle.

Limbaugh and conservatives think they are so damn clever, when in actuality they are displaying juvenile and racist behavior that is completely and painfully transparent to all but the voluntarily blind.

Why don't you go say what Rush said to the next black person you meet on the street. Then see how 'freely' you get your ass whooped.

Now, to say that if I when up to a black person and said that, that they would hurt me? Hummmmm. Isn't that presumptuous that a black would do bodily harm?

BSJ

Excellent point. Its funny how many comments assume a black person has to resort to violence when he or she hears something offensive.

I'm not 'assuming' anything. That's just how it is. It's called 'street smarts', of which Rush has zero. Take a walk through Compton, Lincoln Park, the badlands in Philly, Jamaica Queens, any of these neighborhoods, say this, and just see what happens.

Thanks jackkeefe

Uhh.. you forgot a critical part of that, but way to try and spin it.
If he just said 'man child', then it wouldnt be so much of a problem. But he had to throw 'black' in there. Why is it, you think, that he had to include the fact that Obama is black in his comment? Don't you think that everyone already knows that?

because the LIBS keep brining it up. Black this, black that. SICK OF IT!

Good post Juno Hera. Totally agree.

because the LIBS keep brining it up. Black this, black that. SICK OF IT!

That's the most bull@!$%# statement I have seen. Not one time in my months of posting here on the vine have I seen one single liberal bring race into the conversation. It is only in reaction to something stupid the right said. Which happens all too frequently.

BA: BO says that is what he is! Why not agree?

Thanks BSJ.

The point is that many view him as light on experience, like a child, and he is a man. AND the reason no one can say this is because he is black.

Because every time these issues come up, the person or people questioning him are demonized as racists.

Juno, thats EXACTLY what Rush meant by man-child. Other folks need to get a grip and for Gods sake...lighten up.

I see no difference between disparaging a man in his 40s as a "little black man-child" and calling him a "black boy." Both are demeaning and offensive and explicitly racial.

15.10

You said: "I'd bet there are a LOT of ways to say it without diminishing him as a person or bringing in race."

If Barack Obama is going to be "diminished" by this statement Rush Limbaugh made then he has no business running for president. People feel strongly about things and describe their own thoughts, experiences and opinions accordingly, that's all Rush did. There is no big white conspiracy here. No subliminal hocus pocus. Just an outspoken conservative man discussing his ideas.

Why is there this huge wave of people who suddenly want to block out every word that may not be "nice" why should we have to pick our words so carefully, making sure they are PC. Now its not the issues we seem to care about but rather how we sound when we talk about the issues! Its totally changing our focus from whats really important.

I don't know what qualifies as effective regarding this. There doesn't seem to me, to be any way to discuss BO without it turning into an issue of his race.

Showing that he isn't the right man for the job is diminishing.

Race is an issue, because many are making it so.

How often are we hearing the polls report that the black communities around the nation want BO in because he's black? And getting him in would be tres Historic!

I'm sorry you feel that way trex. I don't see anything demeaning about BO's race. He is who he is. Saying so shouldn't bring so many such anguish. If rush had said that all he hates about BO could be whittled down to his skin tone, I could see where you're coming from. Until then, I'm not buying it.

Wow, BSJ, I sure hope your attitude doesn't extend to your child. Unless of course you were lying and didn't really adopt a black child. I can't possibly imagine someone who scorns black people as much as you do deigning to adopt one.

biggerthebetter, I do not SCORN BLACK PEOPLE. How dare you suggest that I may be lying about the most amazing gift God has given my wife and I.

How low did the Austrian Corporal start, and how far did he get? Stalin was of humble origins as well. It's not hard to get far when you preach uncritical hate: that will bring you wealth and power easily. When you start from nothing and preach love and forgiveness, the haters nail you to a couple of sticks on a hill outside of town, however.

I have a feeling I know what the intellectual forefathers of Rush's fans were yelling when Pilate asked his question. They were screaming "crucify the hippie librul bastard!"

When you start from nothing and preach love and forgiveness, the haters nail you to a couple of sticks on a hill outside of town, however.

Bob Marley....

Himmler, Farrakhan, Mao, Pol Pot, Qutb.

For every one you can come up with, I have a raft more from the other side. It is too damn easy to demonize the other and ride it to riches, power, and fame. Using hate to move from rags to riches is hardly an accomplishment to be proud of.

18.3

Adipic, you are being ridiculous, your comparisons are so cliche and disproportionate. I think this is laziness on your part. You are obviously an intelligent person (no sarcasm here, I've read many of your posts) but you resort to this very lazy argument. I just think you are totally copping out.

You don't like Rush but to compare him to Nazi's and Pontius Pilot and to take us to the crucified Christ, now that's a little melodramatic isn't it?

Is everyone who disagrees with you and evil Nazi or the Anti-Christ? Or just those who say things that are not PC or that could hurt someones feelings?

Adipic, you are being ridiculous, your comparisons are so cliche and disproportionate.

I am returning to Rush the same level of respect he gives to those whom he comments on. Do not accuse me of inappropriate behavior while you sing his praises.

18.5

Well I'm not really singing his praises, I find him a little annoying sometimes and like I said, I am not a regular listener, be that as it may, my problem is with your argument, it's lazy and ridiculous.

You are going overboard, throwing Limbaugh in with Stalin, the Nazis and Pilot? I don't think Limbaugh has ever murdered anyone. To my knowledge he has no secret camps full of starving, tortured people, he's never thrown infants against rocks or out of windows in front of their mothers.

If you despise him, fine but make some meaningful comparisons instead of making a mockery of the horrors that real people suffered at the hands of real evil. You are not treating him with the same amount of respect you see him treat others, you are treating victims of extreme torture and suffering with no respect at all. You are minimizing what they suffered, I genuinely wish you could see that.

Your politics are very different from mine, probably exactly opposite of mine actually, but I admire the way your comments are always so well written and you are obviously intelligent and well educated. I really wish you would take into account what I'm saying here, you can agree or disagree in the end but it's coming from my heart and I wish you would at least give it some thought before rejecting my opinion outright.

You are going overboard, throwing Limbaugh in with Stalin, the Nazis and Pilot?

Just because he is not quite as successful a demagogue doesn't make him not a demagogue. Perhaps a more apt comparison would be to Goebels or the authors of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, as he is mostly a propagandist.

So, I guess your rich, and love war. Those are the only issues he represents.

Rennurfast-

You must make $5,000,000.00 or more.
How are those Halliburton stocks doing? btw

-beat me to it junkie!

BA: How narrow a view you have of your opposing party.

Rennurfast: I'm also in McCain's camp. I was cool on him for a long time, for many reasons, but have come around to believe he will listen to the American people and that he will be best for us.

Ok, juno, if you can prove me wrong, that his policies will in fact help the middle and lower classes, and that he is not in favor of war, please do so.

believe he will listen to the American people

Well, until the batteries in his hearing aids give out anyway.

Hey, if it's OK to call Barry a "man-child" it's perfectly OK to call McCain a senile codger, right?

BA: Would you listen to anything I have to say? Really? I have a feeling you're rolling your eyes at me, and that whatever I say will not matter.

McCain has said he wants to cut out the over-spending. That he would veto bills that come to the Oval Office with earmarks. I hope that means getting rid of fat government as well.

He's said he will not raise taxes, nor will he look to penalize businesses with higher taxes. Small business in this country employ people, the fewer penalties we impose, the more people they can hire. Good for people. I'm not rich by even BO's definition. Entitlement pulls already hurt, under BO I feel they would get worse.

People don't generally favor war, and I think the use here regarding McCain is an over statement. People do support our military persons engaged in war though. McCain wants us to come out without leaving Iraq in worse shape than when SH was killing his people. That's not an enjoyment of war, that is a reality of what we must do.

Considering McCain experience in a war-zone, I can't even imagine why someone would think he would love it.

Even the venerated BO has said that military action is never off the table.

AA: The Dems are calling McCain 'old' in any way they can. I don't take offense to the fact that he is old. Why should I? He is. It's actually one of the reasons the VP pick is so important. Do I think it detracts from his viability, no I don't.

I hope that means...

And yet Obama supporters are derided for relying on "hope"? I have a feeling that if the Republicans nominated Karl Marx, we'd be told by the diehards how he's the embodiment of conservative principles.

Maybe he would be, if the only principle is "keep us in power."

WOW..Hope and Change...Sounds great. I think I used that (or close to it)when I ran for High School Senior President. (I won!!!) DO any of you Obama voters KNOW what that means????
Of course your don't .....NO ONE DOES! He's an empty suit with NO experience. Just because you are not happy with the current administration, doesn't mean you vote for this kind of man.

That's so cute AA!

Yes I can hope that one part of his proposal that I do like leads to another that he should also like.

Not the same kind of hope I see from your side though. And the Marx doctrine is not loved by the Right. In fact what we do know about BO smacks of those ideologies.

Too few Americans don't understand economics and why TAX,TAX,TAX NEVER works to help the economy. It only creates/enables a nanny state.
BAJunkie: To say that Conservatives love war and are rich is ridiculous. By the way, if you take the House of Rep. the Dems. are far richer than the Republicans. FACT

Rennurffast, You know, I just don't understand why ANYONE would WANT the redistribution of wealth. I believe ignorance is the only answer. My family, my friends and I work very hard to have the life we have (NOT rich, by the way..way, way, way under 5 Million- I'm a Elementary school teacher ;)

And under the Church of the Most Holy Tax Cut, Peace Be Upon It, elementary school teachers will be paid even less.

Tax, Tax, Tax certainly doesn't work, but neither does Cut, Cut, Cut, particularly when there's a shooting war to pay for. I have heard from the learned heads on the Right that we are engaged in a struggle every bit as serious as the Second World War; we did not cut our taxes during that conflict, rather it was considered everyone's patriotic duty to go beyond the mere taxes and buy war bonds to help finance the struggle. McCain does not call for national sacrifice for victory, and he doesn't call for ending the conflict either. His economic plan vis a vis the war appears to be almost identical to LBJs in Vietnam: he wants to fight his war and pursue his domestic goals at the same time, and that will have the same ruinous effect on the country.

Like I just said..."Too few Americans don't understand economics..." AdipicAcid...It's not "his war" but it will be his responsibility, GOD WILLING to end it with a victory, which is just about a done deal. Oh, but wait...I bet you listen to the main stream media and what THEY say is that we haven't done a damn thing good for Iraq and the War on Terror. ;)

Too few Americans don't understand economics...

Would you like to discuss the mathematical models behind optimal taxation analysis? I've got math through Real Analysis and a degree in Computer Science, along with a couple of Economics classes under my belt, so the mathematics will hardly scare me. I'll need to brush up on some terms, but that's just language.

But please, be rigorous in your arguments. I am sure you understand the standards of evidence and proof required and that anecdotal evidence is worthless in serious economics, which you claim no one here seems to understand. Enlighten us, but be sure to show all of the math and cite your sources.

Oh, and just how would you grade the grammar of that sentence I quoted, if one of your students were to submit it in a homework assignment? It seems to have some subject/verb agreement problems, as far as I can tell, but then again I managed to skip college English.

Sorry Mr. Rennurfast. I never intended for my words to offend you to the extent that you would feel the need to attack me personally. My point had nothing to do with the radio entertainer Limbaugh, it had to do with the rapid downward spiral of political discourse across the nation with both sides of the spectrum attempting to stifle debate by introducing irrelevant factors to divert attention away from the actual issues. As an example, someone attempting to discount someone else's thoughts and opinions by concluding that the individual has a problem within himself or herself and the inability to make good judgments. It's especially frustrating when the person making such an assertion has no personal knowledge of the writer they are judging whatsoever upon which to base his or her conclusion. I rarely listen to Mr. Limbaugh but I'll most likely retain the right to so without regard to third party directions not to. I tend to not let others decide where I gather information. In the future, someone else might suggest that I not read any posts by someone with the screenname of Rennurfast and I most likely will not listen to that person either. I'm sorry you're sorry no one has imposed your analysis on me previously but then again, how would you know if someone had in fact done so? As I stated earlier, you don't know me. Pax Vobiscum.....Rob